Curse

I am Aslan · Jun 17, 2009, 10:38 AM // 10:38

hey there guys,
i have already sorted my necro's for dway and/or sabway

i have recently done doa and have thought about making a balanced team with my heroes.

i play a ranger myself, usually run bha epidemic or a spear build i came up with, my necro's backlining and supporting

i was thinking what about a real 'team'. me and an ele backlining with a warrior up front and a support / healing char keeping us up?

it is possible for heroes to work like this or should i just stick to known heroway's?

any help / ideas on the subject greatly appreciated.... also if you know a better way to have heroes than dway / sab (conditional or not) let me know. i just fancy a change

Super Igor · Jun 17, 2009, 11:36 AM // 11:36

You cant make heroes do what players do, if youre trying to do that stop failing.

Make your heroes do what they do best: ABUSING SHIT, interrupts, direct heals, weapon spells, block spells, hexes.

If you wanna run a bunch of assorted Heroes go ahead but just dont call them a team you would never achieve any major synergies like necorways have.

zwei2stein · Jun 17, 2009, 12:45 PM // 12:45

Yes, you can play balanced like you want.

Just try to put together build and play it (you already envisioned something) it and see for yourself. If it feels weak and that bothers you, tweak it or come back here and ask advice on your build.

ajc2123 · Jun 17, 2009, 01:14 PM // 13:14

If your talking about a team of 4, just you and your hero's, I'm no good at condensed teams, but im sure its possible with the right knowledge of where you are and how hero's use their builds.

Teams of 6/8 however, I love making Balanced builds with the H/H. Usually 1 Hero monk, 1 hench monk, 1 mesmer hero, etc etc.

You can make balanced builds, but to be effective it takes knowledge of how hero's use their skills and what kind of skills you need for the area. For example I seem to recall heros cast weapon spells (most of them anyways) on Characters holding Melee weapons first, then bows, and MAYBE wands/staves? Little tidbits like this helps.

Good luck, if you find an effective build lemme know XD

Helix Dreadlock · Jun 17, 2009, 02:21 PM // 14:21

I normally use 2 monks...3 depending on area, 1-2 wars, an interrupt henchie, a ranger, and a degen henchie. Really all depending on where I go.

aoeclald · Jun 17, 2009, 04:10 PM // 16:10

When composing a team based off H/H, do some research on what Heroes can and can not do based on their AI. For example, most weapon spells will be placed on any character wielding a martial weapon, regardless of their profession. This is why monks with spears will get Splinter Weapon even though they may not be attacking.

In addition, similar to SABway, if they have any spell that targets a foe, they must be placed on Defensive (the spell here is actually a signet, my bad -- Signet of Lost Souls). This is purely why you do not want to bring monk(s) with spells that target foes, including Power Drain for energy management. Monks will run to the frontline and wand, and they will heal at a much less powerful capability since they are now forced to Defensive to watch for something to PDrain.

Those are the cons, however a few pros when devising hero bars:

Heroes are able to prot accordingly as they see the action coming. Usually you are still required to prot spirit your tank as he runs in before combat, but heroes are very good at protting in general. Your monk heroes should not be entirely composed of prot; however, consider spells like Gift of Health and the Heaven's Delight/Divine Healing combo for a small burst of AoE healing.

In addition, heroes are able to target the entire battlefield much more easily than humans can, this is where interrupts, minions, and corpses come into play. Unyielding Aura hero monks have a tendency to rez a fallen ally before it even hits the ground because they are just that fast. Interrupt mesmers are able to not only rupt with AoE skills like Cry of Frustration and Tease with ease, but they also have the ability to interrupt 1/4 casting times because a Hero does not rely on Reflex Interrupting like most rupters. Lastly, as you have seen in SABway, minions are also considered as group members to heroes based on the targeting system, therefore they are able to spam death nova, dwayna's sorrow, etc. as they will which a human player would have a lot of difficulty being as target-happy as the Minion Master.

Ultimately, just look into AI disadvantages and advantages when composing your teams. The ones posted here are pretty big, and hopefully a good start when considering a team. Remember, even some of the best Hero bars require micro at times -- don't forget to flag properly out of AoE, to lock targets for interrupters, martial classes (including paragons and rangers), and pay attention to whether or not your "test" hero bar is working the way you expected it to be run.

Paul Dawg · Jun 18, 2009, 04:53 AM // 04:53

Aoeclald's post is very good. Yes, remember what hero AI is good and bad at. They're good at doing things faster than humans can, like interrupts and minion-making. They're good at targeting things everywhere on the battlefield. They're bad at managing energy and trying to do complex sequences of skills. Go for quick, low-energy, low-recharge, spammable skills, and avoid high-energy skills they can blow themselves out with, as well as high-recharge skills where they have to sit there waiting for the skill to come back if they misused it or got interrupted.

One of the many reasons why Sabway works so well is that it relies on skills that heroes can put to good use. Not saying you have to use Sabway all the time, but study the combination of skills that she put together and why they're perfectly suited to heroes. It's a great model for learning how to make hero builds.